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This is the Tri Swim Coach podcast where the most difficult length of the Triathlon becomes your friend leaving your struggles and your competition behind you. helping you to laugh at the water.

Kevin: Alright, welcome to Tri Swim Coach this is Kevin, and this is episode number sixty six, and I have for the second week in a row on the line with me assistant Tri Swim Coach and fifth range US Triathlete Chris Hague. Hey Chris, how is it going?

Chris: It’s going good, it’s going good yeah. Weather is probably getting good so it’s all good.

Kevin: Cool man, by the way, I can call you fifth range triathlete right?

Chris: Yeap, because yeah I came in fifth in Gales () and actually coordinated the WTC in third but I don’t know how they do their ranking system so it’s up there but yeah.

Kevin: Yeah

Chris: You are on this, this is your last race.

Kevin: Cool, yeah that’s right haha. Cool, listen up, how is the weekend for the training and work and everything.

Chris: Well, work it’s been hectic because we’ve a lot of local races here in the east coast there’s a huge race organization called () where they put on a lot of local races that actually can get a lot of people from the DC area and this past weekend they had a race down in Virginia and the water temperature was at 62ish so people was scrambling to run wet suits so we were just land glass week at the shop.  People calling at last minute saying “Uh I’m going down at the lake and uh can you get me a wet suit? Do you have any wet suits in stock? Immediately I’ve never seen run completely out of eight hundred and we were pretty much, except for the call the odd sizes like the triple extra small we were completely sold out. It was a mad house.

Kevin: That’s…

Chris: But yeah yeah it was busy and Tri is going well kind of leaving up to () which is just going to be you know a little fun Olympic race that I’m doing from Connecticut so yeah but everything is overall pretty good.

Kevin: Awesome. Yeah well like I said before it started the show I’m making a comeback haha so I’m sorts and I took the winner off from swimming and I got back in the pool about three weeks ago and just doing two times a week and I’m slowly building my way back to work out type distances and I’m on to sixteen hundred yards

Chris: Nice!

Kevin: Yeah, so that’s with a little bit of fusing fins not a lot but I put them on just to take that pressure off any potential shoulder injuries which

Chris: Yeah

Kevin: Actually there is a question on that I think we have this week but yeah and then I been really focusing on gym stuff like weights and little yoga and yeah it’s all

Chris: Little rehab work

Kevin: What’s that?

Chris: Little rehab work here and there

Kevin: Yeah, doing a little of that I got some new exercises so and there seem to be working and strengthening the right muscles so yeah, so we had this week we have some Q&A we wanted to continue because last time we had so many questions that there really wasn’t enough time to get to everyone but I put it out there on Facebook on the Tri Swim Pro member area and also I put it on Twitter so and if you want to join the Tri Swim Pro group you just go to and you can see what is all included and then you all have access to this closed group where  we have discussions on various triathlon tips and swimming tips and things like that, and also it can get kind of controversial so anyway let’s see, where did we leave? Do you know which one because I think Vince looks like?

Chris: I think the last question we tackle was from one of our international listeners who’s asking about how to jump on from an Olympic distance from a spring distance

Kevin: Oh Yeah

Chris: Adverse conditions in like the heat and when you can’t get to a pool

Kevin: Yeah ok, so we didn’t answer Woody Brown’s question here,

Chris: I don’t think so

Kevin: Ok so we have one two three four yeah kind of about five questions, six maybe we got a lot of, so let’s get going, so the first one here this is from May 3rd  and the rest of them are may 9th  10th so  I’ll go with this one first Woody Brown says, My biggest issue just got the DVD haven’t had a chance to do anything in the drills is that I swim too fast  and too hard which in term causes me to be out of breath too quickly and I feel worn out after the first fifty to a hundred meters I get pretty discourage after every swim work out because I am pretty solid in both running and cycling. I tried to slow my pace down but for some reason I always end up having to go from free style to breast stroke to be able to finish my distance so it doesn’t have an specific question but it’s I guess his issue is that he is going out to hard running out of breath and feeling kind of worn out at the () beginning of the race. What would you tell Woody?

Chris: To answer your question Woody and I think I can completely relate to you because I. Swimming is my biggest side () the first option is swim your arm race but everyone else go let them () and then go yourself. Let the water is clear, let them calm down and then start your swim. And the first fifty should be normal pace because anyone can have a fast fifty meters, it’s the rest of the race that counts so focus on making sure that you are comfortable and easy so that you have the energy when you come out of the water to hop on the bike and hop on the road  so that’s your first option is just take it super easy and don’t worry about your time, don’t worry about your sweats, and then as you start to get into the swim then start to pick it up. The other option is to search training in doing sets that train you to go out fast and then back down the pace and then finish fast so what I sometimes do is I would do large sets like a thousand meters where I do the first two hundred all out () and then the next two hundred out a moderate pace and then the next three hundred like a steady rhythm getting into a rhythm somewhat race pace I would almost call tempo pace and then finish the rest of the thousand average pace. Like all out () and try doing that so you train your body to go out really, really fast like you are doing a race and then tune it down it depends on your level of ability but either way will work it’s just getting used to not getting caught up in all the emotions in all the adrenaline of the race start.

???: Yeah, that’s a huge part of it and I did last year I did a course, I put together a course with Chris Johnson the Tri ().com guy and we talked a lot about that, about the thrill to begin and just how you get all this anxiety and emotions going and it’s really tempting just to go really hard, almost to get rid of that nervous energy and then what happens is that you get about two hundred meters in and you are starting to die already and you may have another three hundred meters to go so that’s all fun but as far of work out go he says he gets pretty discourage at every swim work out because he’s solid in running and cycling to me it sounds like he’s probably fighting the water  a lot like a lot of people do and instead of kind of working with the water  and getting that kind of nice long stroke I would work on that the hip rotation and the high () would be two things that come to mind here without seeing him stroke  I would say that’s probably a lot of it because when you are fighting the water doesn’t matter how long your race is you’re going to kill yourself and then you’re going to be () on the bike and then the run so and then it says that I tried to slow down my pace for some reason always end up having to go from free style to breast stroke by distance. I don’t think that’s really a horrible thing I think going to breast stroke if you can do that  as long as it’s not the whole race I think you’re actually saving yourself a little there because you can air, you can see where you’re going it’s great to be able to do a little bit of breast stroke.

Chris: Yeah, lowers down your heart rate.

???: Yeah, exactly, lowers down your heart rate so I don’t think, unless you are doing like so much breast stroke and people are swimming all on top of you and you’re falling way behind I wouldn’t worry about doing a little bit of breast stroke so and that’s the thing it’s kind of an ego thing to I don’t know if it is in Woody’s case I get out there and even though it’s a long race even if you’re doing a () or Olympic is a long race and you can’t win anything in the swim but I still get because I come from a swimming background I get competitive and I’m like I don’t want to some breast stroke I want to keep going fast and it’s tempting to do that but unless you’re trying for some reason you want compete in the swim itself like I would do because that’s all I really care about I wouldn’t worry about that slowing down is fine.

Chris: Yeah, you kind of begging frustrating in the swim it just takes time it’s taking me two years to finally get () from the water now I feel for the first time ever I feel really comfortable in the water and that is just like learning a new language eventually it will click but till then you can’t get frustrated with it you just got accept where you are right now in your athletic ability and go with it.

??? Alright, cool, so do you have the questions call right in front of you?

Chris: Let me see if I can pull it off

? Okay I’ll just read in this one. Vince Cesto says Hello I like to know a little bit more about body position in the water and how important it is I am pretty lean due to the amount of training that I do so I sit low in the water. People are telling me that I should sit higher in the water with my shoulders out of the water but I can only achieve this when I’m swimming at a faster stroke I guess he means at a higher turnover or a rate and then he says any comments on what I should be aiming for distant races and how I need to achieve it. Ok so body position as far as stirring higher or low in the water part of it is going to be actually two things ideally you want to be on top of the water at the surface you don’t want to be sinking you see a lot of people that have this strokes where their hips are just sinking in the water and it’s kind of like an anchor where you are drawing off your body and it really slows you down and it’s frustrating but there’s two things there that actually help you get on top of the water one is the body fat so he says he’s pretty lean and that’s what a lot of Triathletes have their lean and they are not standing on the surface because their low body fat is dragging them down I have this issue, I don’t have a ton of body fat so I’m a sinker you know if I go out there and try to kind of float I just sink so there’s that issue so again you can go to the cheesecake diet or the donut diet and try to put on some fat or a healthier way to do this would be to work on your balance in the water which is the first thing or one of the first things that we teach at the Tri-swim colleges working on getting that balance in the water because we are not naturally suited cause humans suited to the aquatic environment so you know you just go in and do the kicking on your side put on  pair of swimmer fins if that helps which it helps a lot of people do some kicking on your side, do some shark fin drill and you do that every time you get in for you know two or three weeks so you start to feel that balance coming in to your stroke and it takes a little bit of patience but so many people have gone through a program and they get it like two weeks in they feel like Oh I’m starting to feel it  you know so it’s a nice feeling.

Chris: You were saying about body positioning in the water

???: Yeah, so I think I was pretty much finished with () so it’s most going to be a balance issue there and it comes about what I should be aiming specially for distant races and how I need to achieve it. I’m not really sure what is exactly asking or what kind of goals he should have or that kind a thing I don’t know but it goes back to the last question if you’re saving your energy for breast stroke race it’s not important that you go super fast unless you are competing for something in the swim so what do you think?

Chris: I agree completely specially with body positioning just getting that feel for the water and taking drills I agree whether it’s just kicking or () with your arms outstretched () because I find it dangerous if you kick going () because athletes who kick () and then when they stroke they’re () cause they’re used to that () position. So kicking with your arms kind of like in a superman position and that you can work out in breathing because you are going out of the bubble () but kicking making sure that your hips are nice and then also getting the feeling of kicking downhillkind of crushing your feet, pushing your chest down into the water will () your legs and kicking down going on down hill just it helped me getting my hips in the line and my ankles off. So kick surface in the water but down.

???: Yeah, that’s a good point and one of the things I did not mention is also the head position super important if you are looking down you got just the back of your head right above of the surface that’s about ideal you don’t want to be looking straightforward or looking at the side or anything that would really mess up your body position  so

Kevin: So the next one is Alfredo Castillo and he says my main issue is breast stroke technique to avoid shoulder injuries it’s just what I was talking about so you want to take this one first and then I’ll go in?

Chris: So the main reason I think for shoulder injury is there is one thing your () is too deep so what’s happening is you entering your hand is entering into the water () of an angle so instead of having your hand to two or three inches underneath the water surface you’re going down too deep so you are like a foot deep and that also you are not going to have any power in your stroke and that also puts a lot of pressure on your arm on your shoulder moreover you are extending your arm so you don’t have a nice almost 90 degree bending on your elbow  when you () your almost straight arm you are just scrape the bottom of the pool and that also puts a lot of pressure in your shoulder. Another problem is that you are not rotating enough so you are not engaging those back muscles and it’s all in the arm muscles which strengths that rotator cuff so there are three main points that cause shoulder injuries.

Kevin: Yeah I agree with that and I would add one thing that a lot of people do is the cross over instead of pulling straight back you are pulling kind of in and then back so it’s call a cross I have it as a kid for years I think I couldn’t break out that habit and that definitely messed up my left shoulder so that’s a really important one if you are doing a cross you only know if you are doing it if you see yourself on video or if someone can point it out it’s hard to picture in your mind so but also just another thing to add I aggravated shoulders way back when I was in college by doing too much pulling just () doing my entire work out () and then putting paddles on that really didn’t work well over my shoulders it just puts ton of pressure on your shoulders that is really unnecessary so.

Chris: I agree and paddles are fun I use paddles a lot to generate () and I don’t use the huge mass of paddles it’s like small ones and I actually started using the () you know the triangle ones that help with correcting your stroke.
Kevin: Yeah those are great they’re free style

Chris: Because you can cross over with this, if you cross over it doesn’t work so it helped me get my arm out in the proper position and another thing it helped with not crossing over is conciselykind of pushing your arm out to the side. We all think () is the best position but when you are in the wrong () or when your () you don’t want to be on a () position because you are going to be crossing over. And you’re also going to be losing that power on the () so kind of consciously pushing your arm out to the side because even though you feel like maybe your arm might be going at the right angle chances are that you’re going to be straighten out.

Kevin: Yeah, exactly, so the next one is from Gregg and I was hoping I wouldn’t have to say his last name because I don’t really know how to pronounce it but I will try it, Gregg Vanishktron and he says I’m with Vince who we mentioned earlier, I did some video of myself and notice from my head is pretty much completely out of the water then lifted my head out more and I’m faster but now I feel like I’m flying the feeling of what proper balance should be. Flying the face, I don’t really know what that means, flying in the face of. You only guess proper balance. That’s hard to say it sounds like he made a correction, is working, but he’s kind of not sure if that’s the right way to go in terms of proper balance.

Chris: It sounds like if he does it’s faster because you know he is pushing his head down more than go with it, in swimming there is not necessary one right way () and if your body positioning is better with your head down use it.

Kevin: Yeah well, I guess what it is he’s confused about the head position because we always say push your head down so that you’re () and he is saying he lifted his head up more and became faster. That’s logical to me because he said before his head was completely under waters so it was causing drag. He lifted it up and he’s not hitting that drag anymore so I think Gregg you are doing the right thing and there is nothing to worry about really just keep doing what works.

Chris: Yeah it sounds good to me.

Kevin: Damon () says I think my head position is pretty good with my head down but my problem is that my legs sink like bricks and end up dragging me down have to kick like crazy just to keep them up because that has me constantly out of breath, help.  So you answered this actually, do you want me to read your answer or do you want to?

Chris: Sure

Kevin: Ok so you said, Damon try pushing your chest down as if you were swimmingdownhill, also try () while arching your back so that your shoulders are up your hips are down but your legs are up so and you know that is a good answer and also it goes back to balance. I mean part of it is the head position and then part of it is just how balanced you are in the water and then the other part is the kick itself. I think I mentioned this on the last podcast that runner kicks have a lot to do as well so if you feel your angle like going down towards like the bottom of the pool the feet are going to drag and your legs are going to sink. So make sure you are not doing that and if you are then you want to stretch out those ankles and try to just do that every day until you can get to the point where you have a reasonable kick it doesn’t have to be fast but just something that it is adequate.

Chris: Yeah, we are going on that ankle flexibility is good and () so push your hips down, your shoulders up and your hips up and then () down the length of the pool and that will also help you get that feel for the water but it also helps you keep your shoulders up. Another thing to do is when your kicking, don’t kick with the kick cord because that’s going to push your feet down, when you keep don’t use the board so the superman drills that I was talking about, your arms extending and breathing when ().

Kevin: Yeah, exactly, so ok cool, we have one more on from the Facebook group and then we’ve got a couple more from Twitter and then we want to talk about that one of the kicking issue so Jessica says, I’m having a dilemma between sticking with a () stroke that I was taught or going more with a high () I hear to sides of this, one side says in general a () stroke is more efficient for () distance and good for people with higher APE index in another word longer arms or distances like Olympic and 70.3 it may be more beneficial to pick the () and not worry so much about stroke count and gliding. Other side says that it is always best to glide and have low stroke count even during all races. I feel like when I see the fastest swimmers during a race there arms are turning over very fast, yeah, you watch open water swimming and there is a great video I think I posted it on the blog I don’t know a few months ago of an open water race where they follow the leaders I think it was on an Olympic race and it’s really awesome I mean it’s a () is not an exciting sport at all but this video made it really exciting and you can pick up on what they are doing and they do look like their arms are spinning or turning over pretty fast if you look at their underwater pole you will see how efficient it is, so it is really important that you get that under water pole, the high elbow, point that we talk about it over and over down first and I answered this just to say what I answered on the board that is a great question Jessica I used to focus a lot on the glide but there are problems with this. One is while you are gliding you are actually slowing down so you get the stroke, you are gliding if you focus on the glide you want to get the most out of that glide but you are actually slowing yourself down. Is not the worst thing in the world because you are actually swimming you are doing the triathlon so there are some benefits of the rest that you get but over the course let’s say a mile it starts to add up all the slowing down start to add up. The second thing is gliding too much in rough () means you may get toss around or at least more than if you () your stroke a bit. So it’s condition depending as well instead of focusing on the glide or the long or short strokes I would focus on the high elbow pull/ high elbow () and we have a couple of () of this by month four but overall start with bending elbows in your pole. That’s the first thing so you extend your arm you bend your elbow and no matter what height or what arm length you are this will help you be more efficient in the water and also no matter what distance of the race so yeah what do you think.

Chris: I think the major problem with slow strokes is that you have a huge dead zone () is when you arms aren’t moving at all. You are just kinda of trying to use your momento but you do not have that much momento so your arms are extended but you are not engaging the pole yet and that’s what we call a dead zone and you don’t want to have that zone. You also don’t want to have, you want to quickly accelerate through the water once your hand gets at full extension. So full extension and then quickly accelerate your arm in through the pole phase and then easily recover. So when you see this long distance swimmers that look like they have a very long stroke as you were saying, as you look under the underwater radio their pole is incredibly fast, but their recovery phase, and that is why is called recovery is slower but it is generating so much power with the underwater phase that they can do that.

Kevin: I just have a question, another question came in while we were talking from Sam Cole and he says, how can I prepare for an open water swim when I only have access to a pool? My first race was in open water 1500 meter swim I thought I was ready but I had to take several breaks on the Kayaks I was not last but I could see the last people it’s when everybody is worry about coming last but why don’t you go ahead.

Chris: Since you don’t have access to a open water swim there’s a couple of things you can do to simulate open water swim in the pool, one of them is blind laps where you close your eyes and you just swim and you try to swim with your eyes still shut don’t try to cheat like opening your eyes just a crack so you can see the () but closing your eyes completely so that helps deal when you’re getting into deeper waters or () water you freak out when you can’t see the bottom of the lake or the bottom of the ocean so you freak out and you start hyperventilate so doing the blind () like that. Also get a couple friends and just take over a length and swim in like through your breast or you know one slightly () two on his ankles and that kinda gets you use to swimming with other people right next to you. Another option is in this sounds more like it would help as well in your situation is that don’t touch the walls. Do a flip turn at the end of the black line before you hit the wall and don’t kick off that trains you not to take that rest when you do your flip turn because you do get some rest when you do a flip turn and when you get to open water you don’t have those walls so doing a turn before you hit a wall makes you continuously slim which helps the fitness.

Kevin: Yeah, I like all your points specially that last one, even if you are just doing your flip turns most triathletes I see in the pool don’t even do flip turns they’re just touching the wall or getting a nice big breath and a little rest and then going to the next lap and that’s one thing you can really help yourself is to learn how to do a flip turn if you haven’t done that yet and I got a couple () on flip turns in Tri swim pro and you can also look on youtube there’s some good videos out there if you are not a member, but yeah do the flip turns and you know, or just hold your breath. I’m just kidding, so I got () four on Twitter they came in and the Twitter account is @Triswimcoach if you want to send us something for the next time but let’s read the first time here. Clare Harris says, how can you stay out of trouble in the pack in the first part of the swim? Swimming is the worst () to me. How can you stay out of trouble in the pack?

Chris: So, start up wide would be one of the first options if you really want to stay with the lead pack so that you can come up with them try () don’t go out necessarily with those ten people but stay maybe 3 or 4 yards behind them and just drag off them and keep aside of them, also as we brought up at the beginning let them go and then  swim your own swim and swim your own pace while that may be a little psychological that might be discouraging because you can’t see the lead pack you know how far ahead of them are you but if you are confident enough in your own pace and then in your own pace ability if you come out two minutes behind them you’re gonna easily made () on the bike. () but at least for a half hour in iron you can get two minutes off easily.

Kevin: Yeah it is a great point, and I will just add to that there is a couple of things you can do to begin depending on how serious you are about finishing over the top in the swim, most people aren’t but there are a few people that are like I want to do, I want to just kill my swim times and you know beat as many people as I can or something but if you are not worried about that you can stand there like the gun goes off and let’s say you are starting from the shore you just stand there and wait for 30 seconds or something and then you can kinda relax in the first part of your swim instead of running with the pack and getting up there and trying to get that first () turn and all that it’s easier if you can hold back a little bit start a little bit late and then you can also just start kinda to the outside like everybody is trying to push in for this inside track you can just have to be outside do what everyone isn’t doing and a lot of times make your race a lot more pleasant. By if you are already in the pack, like if you are already starting out there you want to have the best race that you can and stay out of trouble part of it is just being aware of everything around you being kinda centered you know getting that centered feeling where you are not worried about what everyone else is doing you’re just swimming your own race, you’re getting touch you’re getting maybe even hit and you’re getting kick and splash all but you’re still centered and you’re still just focusing on your stroke and just doing one stroke maybe even count, one, two or something like that so there’s a lot of ways to kinda deal with that pack. I choose to not deal with it very much but you know if you are in there then is really important to kick out that mental game.

Chris: Yeah and also don’t be afraid, I like to consider myself a general nice person but if I get into the wash machine of that deep pack I like to try stay with them just because psychologically I found that if I stay with them and I’m able withhold with them, it builds my confidence. I like to go out with the () and you know it is chaotic and hectic but I kinda like that chaos and hectic and you can’t () let them know that you are not going to be pushed around but in generally friendly way don’t impede them obviously don’t grab their ankles on purpose but you know if they are putting too close to you or cutting you off then move over slightly being respectful and if they respect your space and area keep to their own space.

Yeah, ()

Chris: Yeah exactly

Kevin: If it is official they can tell so, yeah, we want to turn swimming; the swimming portion of the triathlon would be soon like that anime

Chris: Some of the swim start it is like the anime

Kevin: if you expect that is a lot of easy so you got to keep () for the beginner triathlete should you go with the wet suit of the speed suit for your first open water race. Does it depend on swim skill?

Chris: No, in my opinion depends on temperature. If it’s above 76 degrees go with the speed skins, if it’s under 76 degrees go with the wet suit. If you are really speed skins are great specially my favorites are the () 71 I tested a bunch of them I tested the () is my favorite because it feels, it gives you that form fittingness of the wet suit but it doesn’t give you any of the () at testing and speed suits are just hydrodynamic as a sleeveless wet suits so if you are worried about your times then go with the speed suit. They are a little on the pricy side their worth being best if it’s your first swim, if it’s your first triathlon, you are really eager to beat a lot of people then use a swim skin if you are just doing it for fun it may not be worth invest in one.

Kevin: Yeah and in term of wet suits I have a 19, the brand is 19 and they were nice enough to, he send me that suit, he sponsored me for having the website and the show and everything so I wanted to mention them that I really like it, I do like the suit a lot it’s super comfortable and then I also interviewed recently Lizz Barlow who works for Xterra and she gave a lot insight into their wet suits they have a lot of good stuff so there are just a lot of good wet suits out there it’s such a competitive industry that you getting any name brand you pretty much can’t go wrong. There is another question on wet suits he just I don’t know this guy’s name let’s see Larry () from Jackson, Mississippi he says, what suits swim skin or neither for spring distance races and wet suits legal temps, so basically the same question we just answered. I would say as far as neither I don’t know if there’s ever a time where you say neither because if you are really, really fast in swimming it usually will benefit you to take you a few seconds extra to take off your swim skin or whatever that’s gonna help so.

Chris: I agree, I say if it’s wet suit legal, wear wet suit

Kevin: Yeah, so one more from Twitter, and this is from Mark () he’s from Michigan and he says, any special swim concerns for Clyde Dales apart from care not to generate large weights that in all previous starters. In Clyde Dales do you know what the cut off is that is the certain body weight?

Chris: 220 pounds, yes I think so. I’m thinking about pumping on into the clyde’s scale.

Kevin: You are almost there, one more cheeseburger

Chris: When you are in a way with a bunch of () give them their space they do require more space and they also tend to be more muscular so elbow to the face () so I think that just a general rule of thumb and they also generate a big rule of draft so it’s easy to draft out a person with larger body mass than it is a narrow person.

Kevin: Yeah, what about for the Clydes Dales themselves. It sounds like we are talking about a horse or something, what about the people that are swimming, do you have anything to add there in certain terms like any difference that they might want to look out for like other people.

Chris: If you are in Clyde Dales what you should do in consideration to other people, just be general courteous. Just swim your arm race, don’t be ashamed and swim your race.

Kevin: Yeah, cool that’s good. So that’s all the questions we had come in so if you do have a question for us and it can be triathlon too, doesn’t have to be just swimming because Chris has done a ton of races and can really give some good insight into bike run, transition, whatever it is, nutrition. So feel free to send them, you can send them to, the best thing to do is just get into our facebook page and you post it there or you can send it to me on twitter at @Triswimcoach and those are the two best or you can join us at and get in () and join the fun. So let’s see we were going to talk about the kick issue that come up. I think we will save that for next time. There is an article that came up () I just want to briefly touch on it about the importance of the kick and how is the number one thing that everyone should be focusing on in triathlon for swimming. It’s a kick which goes pretty much against what I talk about but there’s actually some things that I agree with in that article and I want to talk about that. We’ll talk about that next time and actually I think that I’m going to do a video on it maybe in the next three of four days I’m gonna make a video and just kinda address this issue. I just want to make sure people understand what he’s trying to say there and everything so. I think that’s about it, so if you liked this podcast please give us a rating and review. Just go () it’s and you’ll see this episode, click in there and there’s a link to iTunes and you can write in a rating or you can click in the rating and then just write a quick review it would be awesome and then if you do that and I see it I’ll read it out in the next show.

Chris: Awesome

Kevin: Anything else you got Chris?

Chris: We also have round table discussions () put out a new kind of I would say manifesto but a new policy for the swim so that’s definitely worth to read, a lot of people () have an opinion. We are going to do a little round table discussion on the outcoming podcast if you have any questions or thoughts and opinions feel free to drop them on facebook, get your thoughts out there, we’ll love to hear them.

Kevin: For sure, that’s definitely going to be worth covering. Cool man, have a good week and we’ll pick it up again next week.

Chris: Sweet deal, alright talk to you later man

Kevin: Thanks Man.